| Wigwam - guestbook | ||
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | EsaJii, I wonder if the Swedish-speaking aspect of Wigwam could have caused some people at home to turn their backs on them. Sad that Swedish is unpopular in Finnish schools. I used to teach Swedish to my class when I was a teacher in Denmark, but I think I must have been the only one in the whole country who did that. It's sad and has historic reasons, I suppose, the unpopular Swedish "Big Brother image" in Denmark, Finland and Norway. However, that is a lot less relevant today than it used to be, so it shouldn't be a problem. Incidentally, Swedish is a wonderful and beautiful language. The Folk music is equally amazing. Anyway, I have always regarded the Nordic nations as one people that should never have been split up in the first place. If you go abroad you will find that most outsiders regard us as one people as well, though I don't know what the feeling is in the States. |
| 09/02/08 01:01 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | All of us who went to school before 1980 learned some Swedish. I think Love Records was run by two Swedish speakers. I have contacts with a few Finland Swedes, or really Finns, and have very little negative to say. However, I gather compulsory Swedish has become unpopular, and the interest is now in English mostly. I am not surprised Pohjola spoke Swedish, he was well educated. By the late 70s, Finnish rock magazines, Musa and Soundi, had critics who could make more of the lyrics and the general meaning and thoughts presented on a record. It was, however, when Wigwam was winding down. The press received Nuclear Nightclub, but then moved on. The days of Finns writing proper lyrics in English came mostly in the later 80s and after. The punk era was a bit of a celebration of Finnish. |
| 08/02/08 23:22 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | Back in the early Eigthies I interviewed Pekka Pohjola a few times in English. Then one day I found out that he spoke fluent Swedish. He could read Danish, too. I interviewed Gustavson in a vegetarian restaurant in Helsinki in 1983 (great food, by the way). A very nice fellow indeed! But I have no idea if he spoke Swedish; we just kept it in English. When I interviewed Mats and Mosse we spoke English, too, but that was ridiculous, since they both have Swedish as their first language. On later occasions I've only spoken Swedish with Mats. So you can see why I've been wondering about the internal language in the group. Jim always tried to speak Swedish between songs when the group played in Denmark which, of course, most Danes would take as an insult. He would have been better off staying with English. Still, they went down well. |
| 08/02/08 18:55 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | That may have changed when Nikke was dropped. Only Ronnie remained. But they had some connections still. Jukka is a Finnish speaker. |
| 08/02/08 17:43 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | The thing about Wigwam being somewhat tied to the Swedish-speaking community is very interesting and rarely spoken about. I know the language within the group in the early days was Swedish, but did that change later on? |
| 08/02/08 16:53 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | It was a pretty Scandinavia wide event. May have goen as far south as Germany. However, it had a lot more nuances in Finland with Russia as neighbor. Possibly the youth getting more involved with music and culture in English was also an attempt to break free from their parents. Wigwam, with ties to Swedish speaking Finns was considered a bit intellectual. In the 70s, most of the English lyrics in Finland of any worth were written on translated by either Jim or Mats Huldén. |
| 08/02/08 16:09 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | Funnily enough, I think Shu-Bi-Dua has a lot in common with Jim Pembroke. It has to do with using puns and playing with language, having a great sense of humour and being a bit "out there". There are faint traces of political issues in both, but no party politics. Many other Danish groups claimed to take a political stance. But the whole idea of trying to start a left wing revolution in Denmark in 1968 was bizarre, to say the least. The country had had a Social Democrat government practically ever since the War, and during 1966-68 their support party was the Socialist People's Party, whose leader was the former head of the Communist Party. It was called 'The Red Cabinet' and I doubt there has ever been a more left wing government in any West European state. But there had to be a 'youth revolt', because a bunch of upper middle class kids thought it a lot more fun than growing up and doing your homework. Into this blended with the Cold War and a ridiculous idea that people in little Denmark ought to take sides either for or against one of the super powers. The whole thing created a nasty and aggressive attitude among Danish people in general, which has only started to disappear within the last ten years. I'm 50 now and it is strange to see things you have lived through turn into "history", with all the misconceptions that goes with that. But I moved from Denmark in 1992 and still have a clear and vivid memory of how it really was. What this has to do with Wigwam and Tasavallan Presidentti I'm not sure, other than the fact that they carried me through all this rubbish with their musical skill and JP's great sense of humour. |
| 08/02/08 12:00 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | Correct, Jukka was more occupied with hid faith than politics. The subject is covered in some depth in Mikko's book, and there was a slight friction with Donner on the matter, related to Being lyrics. All the rebellion was more attitude than action, so a band like Wigwam may have been unwillingly caught in a trend. I believe more than one band member avoided military duty, which was a cool thing at the time. Yes, I knew the Shu Bi Dua story was humor. They were perhaps too smart, or smart asses, to take politics seriously. |
| 08/02/08 03:58 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | EsaJii, once a journalist asked Shu-Bi-Dua about the Danish "youth revolt" of 1968, and they replied: "We don't know anything about it, we were on holiday in Mallorca that week." That, to me, is having a sense of humour, including the ability to make fun of yourself. The Danish hippies didn't have much of that. They took themselves veeeeeery seriously, because they had set out to change the world, not just for themselves, but for everyone, whether the rest of us liked it or not. Unfortunately, they won, probably because the other side was either snoring or too busy making money and when they finally woke up it was already too late. With regard to the Finnish side of Wigwam, I love that dearly. It has been with me most of my life and enriched it all the way. All I'm saying is: it is so idiosyncratic that you can't expect the rest of the world to just lap it up and send it straight to No. 1. Perhaps the early Wigwam reviews in Rolling Stone - and some of the later ones in England - gave rock fans in Finland an over optimistic idea of what was possible to achieve internationally and still keep that unique Finnish approach that folks like you and me love so much. Finally, I know that some people connected Wigwam with left wing policies but I can't see much of it in the lyrics. Gustavson is a Jehova's Witness. Pembroke clearly has a Humanistic view of the world but seems far removed from party politics of any kind. But perhaps I'm too square in my thinking here. After all, I was born in the land of the Lego brick. Bedste hilsner, Claes |
| 08/02/08 00:37 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | May well be as you said. We actually do not know where Jim's audience was, but as far as Denmark at least! Though I have only weak ties to Finland anymore, I liked nearly all that came out of Finland from 68-85. It had something distinct, it was not just rock in Finnish. So I am definitely in the Finland camp, as you have lumped us. Wigwam got absorbed into it as it was not just Jim, and Jukka had lots of dedicated fans. He was almost ashamed to play his juvenile idelistic Luulosairas again in this decade, but we all loved it. The band also symbolized some youthful, perceived to be leftist, rebellion. Not like Shu Bi Dua, who were on vacation during the "revolution." |
| 07/02/08 23:28 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | EsaJii, in fact compared to practically any group in Continental Europe at the time Blues Section were streets ahead. However, compared to the US and UK scene they were not. I think it would be safe to say they experimented with a mixture of styles but the experiments didn't truly succeed until later on with Tasavallan Presidentti and Wigwam. With regard to Tolonen's playing on the Tombstone Valentine LP it is quite aggressive, but to my mind it works well because he is simply a fantastic player. It sometimes seems to me that the more suited to an international audience these groups became, the less people liked them at home. At the same time everyone expected them to be big abroad - to 'conquer the world', as I believe the term translates from Finnish. I don't think it was fair on them to make such unrealistic and contradicting demands, and I somehow sense it was a severe pressure for the groups at times and particularly for Jim Pembroke. Correct me if I'm wrong. Venlig hilsen, the Tanskalainen |
| 07/02/08 22:17 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | Tanskalainen, I agree the Blues Section records had faults, but it was pretty revolutionary at the time. Most albums in Finland were mostly covers with one or two originals thrown in. I also think I liked the Finland based arrangements better than the Tombstone Valentine type, with the American Producer. As you say, the guitar was a little too in your face with some Blues Section but even more so with two or three cuts with Tolonen. |
| 07/02/08 16:18 | |
| Name : | Gona |
| Home page : | http://www.tribunagol.com |
| Found : | Search engine |
| Message : | Onpas hienosti tehty kirja tuo "Wigwam". Sain sen juuri joululahjaksi. Pääsin hieman enemmän kiinni tähän tavattoman mielenkiintoiseen yhtyeesee. |
| 07/02/08 15:25 | |
| Name : | Jore |
| Message : | Lauluntekijöiltä ei kannata kysellä analyysejä kymmenien vuosien takaa. He eivät biisiä tekiessäänkään välttämättä olleet ihan perillä mistä laulussa on kysymys saatikka pitkän ajan jälkeen. Useasti sanat ovat tajunnanvirtaa, joka jättää tulkinnanvaraa enemmän tai vähemmän. Sen sijaan muut voivat analysoida tekstejä ja löytää niistä asioita, joista itse tekijällä ei ole harmainta aavistustakaan! Lauluntekijät voivat sitten näitä analyysejä lueskella hymyssä suin: jaa, voit sen kai noinkin tulkita (vrt. Dylan) |
| 07/02/08 11:17 | |
| Name : | Upi, Patela |
| Message : | Analyysejahan saa tehdä,,,oletuksilla leikitellä,,,mutta kyllähän jälkipolville täytyy jättää faktoja,,,,,toisaalta analyyseja ovat tekemässä ihmiset,,,jotka eivät ole eläneet Dark Album-ajassa,,,toisaalta tuosta albumista on niin paljon aikaa,,,että Jim varmasti paljastaa jo kaikki salat,,, |
| 07/02/08 07:23 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | Analyzing the lyrics is the part I like the least, and as I go on it will get more and more impossible simply because they become increasingly surreal. However, the idea from the start was to kind of bridge the Finnish and the English side of JP's career together, i.e. explaining to Finnish fans the more unusual English terms he is using, and make English followers understand better the environment that he was writing in (for instance the way conflicting views on male/female roles seem to have influenced some of the early lyrics). With regard to Blues Section I agree with EsaJii that they were highly influential, but I don't think the Jazz mixed well with Pembroke's much more Beatles inspired and Dylan-esque influences. I think there was a lot of pretty disorganized shooting in the dark going on with that group, but luckily some excellent moments, too. |
| 07/02/08 00:15 | |
| Name : | Tenu |
| Message : | Tenu's Top 5 Rank (today) here: 1. Rumours On The Rebound (my first love, maybe) 2. Nuclear Nightclub 3. Being 4. Wigwam Plays Wigwam - Live 5. Fairyport med venlig hilsen ! tnu |
| 06/02/08 21:58 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | Yes, go ahead with the musical notes but you can leave out lyric interpretation. If there are some spots where the words are difficult to transcribe, that may need notes. Blues Section stuff is obviously well arranged, though there is some jamming. The sax and guitar serve as lead instruments. That pair was carried on in the Love studios and perfected by the Tasavallan Presidentti records, keeping the sax and guitar up front. Or flute and guitar, but the sax and guitar were more like equals in a sparring and duetting kind of game. Try Celebration of the Saved 9 for example. |
| 06/02/08 17:17 | |
| Name : | the Tanskalainen |
| Message : | EsaJii, thanks for your kind remark. I'm starting on the Wigwam stuff now but I'm thinking of doing just the lyrics, getting them as right as possible and make a few comments if there is something unusual going on that might benefit from being explained. In other words, I'm considering to drop the deeper analysis of both words and music because, quite honestly, peeling things apart this way seems to partly ruin my own appreciation of JPs art. Unless there are any heavy protests I think I will continue that way. I would welcome feedback on this one. |
| 05/02/08 22:12 | |
| Name : | Tommi |
| Message : | Eipä ole pitkään aikaan rankattu wigujen vaikkapa top-5 listaa. Tässä meikäläisen suosikit tätänykyä: 1. Dark Album 2. Nuclear Nightclub 3. Plays Wigwam 4. Light Ages 5. Being |
| 05/02/08 21:27 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | Tanskalainen, thanks for sorting out the Blues Section lyrics. I still like Cherry Cup Cake somehow. |
| 05/02/08 18:39 | |
| Name : | Jouni, Joensuu |
| Current favourite song : | Jukka Itkonen: Matkailijan espanjaa |
| Message : | Olen tanakasti samaa mieltä kuin Suonna. Taide olis pirun tylsää, jos se olis niin kuin suomalainen ainoan mahdollisuuden politiikka: vain yksi tulkinta on se ainut ja oikea. Vaikkapa vain itse taiteilijan tulkinta. Aika harva tekijä sortuu selittelemään töitään ja naulaamaan mahdollisuuksia kiinni. Se ei vaan ole taitelijan tehtävä. Ja tietäneekö moni edes tarkasti mitä tuli tehtyä ja miksi. Intuition varassa mennään kuitenkin vahvasti. Faktat ja knoppitiedot ovat toki aina hauskoja ja hyödyllisiä. Mutta ei kun vain tulkintoja kehiin! |
| 05/02/08 14:24 | |
| Name : | Suonna |
| Message : | Tolosen haastattelu on tosiaan suomalaiseksi musiikkijutuksi poikkeuksellisen paljas. - Itse olen sitä mieltä noista biisientekofaktoista, että niitä voi tai pitää kysyä lauluntekijöiltä, mutta kuulijan pitää vaivata päätä myös itse. Vuosikymmenien takaisista vaikutteista tms. asioista harva luovan työn tekijä muistaa kovin tarkasti, ja aika iso osa sivuuttaa Dylanin tyyliin toimittajien utelut lähdemateriaalista. Luova mieli käyttää työapunaan alitajuntaa, eikä päiväminä välttämättä edes tajua lainanneensa tai käyttäneensä aiemmin tehtyä... Aikamoinen työmaa on teillä, jotka aiotte internetin musakeskustelufoorumeilla ruveta vaatimaan musiikintekijöiden itse kertomissa faktoissa pysymistä. |
| 04/02/08 21:34 | |
| Name : | EsaJii |
| Message : | Ei niiltä yleensä paljon selviä, eikä kovin moni biisintekijä selosta tekstejään. Usein sävelen kohdalla biisntekijä ei itse tiedä että lainaa. Siksi noita esitelllään kavereille ensin. Onks tää teistä tuttu vai uus? |
| 04/02/08 18:21 | |
| Name : | Tuomo |
| Message : | Jos jotakuta täällä kiinnostaa Jukka Tolosen haastattelu niin uusimmassa Hesarin kuukausiliitteestä löytyy. |
| 03/02/08 20:40 | |