Wigwam - guestbook

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	A couple of years ago a Finnish renaissance consort recorded a CD of Zappa arrangements. It was supported by the Zappa estate and what I've heard of it was very interesting. Sounded a lot like early Pohjola, in fact, or perhaps it's the other way around.
	12/02/08 18:13

Name :	EsaJii
Message :	I have to disagree. I get the same feeling from Zappa. Throw out all the vocal numbers, listen to Deathless Horsie, Watermelon In Easter Hay, Black Page, Hot Rats. P.K.'s Supermarket was a tribute to Zappa.
	12/02/08 16:08

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	PS. It's not that I want to knock old Zappie, it's just that I like my suomalainens more. (And it's "rot", not "rut", of course.) alt godt, the Tanskalainen
	12/02/08 14:01

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	EsaJii, my point exactly. But the borderlines are thin sometimes. For instance, "Pigworm" is a pretty straight-forward collection of songs, while "Wicked Ivory" certainly has some complicated moments in a Frank Zappa Progressive kind of way. However, Zappa sounds quite cold to me, while Pembroke and other Finns inspired by him (Pohjola, Tolonen) have much more soul and warmth. Humour pervades it all, but again Zappa's is more cynical. That is how it registers with me, anyway.
	12/02/08 12:23

Name :	EsaJii
Message :	Tanskalainen, I see where you are going with this. I understand that Jim was much more flexible, he was not stuck in Prog Rock. Hard Top Lincoln, Kojo, the solo albums and even Remu all came out his 80s work.
	12/02/08 04:54

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	There were some amazing Progressive Rock groups, but there was also a tendency in some camps to believe that if something was difficult to play it must automatically be good. And if the equipment was complicated and expensive, and there were tons of it, it was even better. Which, to use a quote, I think is a load of rut.
	11/02/08 23:43

Name :	Dolph Barkas, Guelph, Canada
Found :	Just surfed on in
Message :	Whats going on with the band right now? any news on a new recording???
	11/02/08 23:32

Name :	Pekka, Aurinkoista Kevättä!
Message :	Jake hyvä...Emmepä puutu enää keskusteluun...tulee turhia riitasointuja...
	11/02/08 23:20

Name :	EsaJii
Message :	How do you spell pompous? ELP John Peel on ELP: A waste of talent and electricity. Music is not all meant for all groups. Some may be for meditation, some for our ancient tribal dance. Whatever works for you. Even Bach knew the power of organ keyboards, though.
	11/02/08 22:48

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	The saddest thing I remember about Progressive Rock in the Seventies, was that it divided people. Earlier on, nearly all young people (and a lot of older ones, too) loved the Beatles, the Kinks, Rolling Stones, the Hollies, the Who, Small Faces and so on. From about 1967 that started to change dramatically, and in the Seventies it was completely split up between music for the college kids, called Progressive Rock, and music for the apprentice boys and their shop assistant girl friends, who liked Slade, Sweet and all the other Glam stuff. When we get to 1975, Prog Rock (which was then called by its full name, the abbreviated term was invented for convenience by record collectors in the late 1980s) had become so pompous and empty of any real purpose and meaning that something HAD to happen, so luckily Punk came along. Wigwam, of course, got kind of stuck in the middle of all that. In a way, they were simply above it! Moving to England in 1975 might have been a good idea but it wouldn't have lasted long.
	11/02/08 18:00

Name :	EsaJii
Current favourite song :	Frank Zappa: Filthy Habits
Message :	The Losing Hold guitarist was a Swede, but not Coste as on Bertha (?). It might be in Mikko's book. I have cut and pasted my Progressive Rock outline below, from my blog. What is progressive rock? Rhino, in their box set Supernatural Fairytales, has underlined one of its hallmarks: lyrics tending towards the mystic, fantasy, or historical legends, or even stories from classic novels as the theme. Sometimes this went a bit to the extreme, almost Disney Style, but on audio. Other extreme cases would be songs that seemed serious, but we had to wonder about (ELP: “he had white horses…what a lucky man he was.”). But there certainly were plenty of clever or philosophical, sincere lyrics as well, as well as satire. Wigwam’s Gustavson focused almost exclusively on pacifism and the spiritual world. The other hallmark of a progressive rock group was a technically impressive keyboardist, such as Gustavson, Emerson and Wakeman. Certainly some out of the usual instrument such as a flute was needed and the music had to be well beyond Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry. Synthesizers took the place of orchestras to give the classical feel. Indeed many of the musicians hah had a classical training. Complicated and changing time signatures and ten minute songs, even on record, were typical. Live shows would feature longer jams. Albums tended to be concept albums. The concert tours had a theme as well, as I was able to see at a Jethro Tull concert a year later. The showmanship was even more elaborate than the Family performance at Ruisrock. This phenomenon evolved to its extreme form in the spectacles of ELO and ELP.
	11/02/08 15:48

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Current favourite song :	Anything on the new Pressa DVD
Message :	EsaJii, I think it's fair to say that Wigwam defied musical labels and moved in a landscape between several genres. However, there is no doubt to me that Jim's lyrics are ingenious, up there with the very best. The strange thing is that he did only little to adapt them to his audience, which was 99% Finnish and probably wouldn't immediately grasp his jokes about Stanley Matthews and the Right Wing, not to mention Wigan suddenly appearing in a song with a peculiar religious theme. It's great that Finnish fans for years have enjoyed his music, his singing and his the formidable sense of rhythm and flow in his lyrics. However, there is more to be discovered in them if you approach them from and English angle. In more ways than one I suppose I'm the man in the middle here, so I had better get on with it, though it is obvious that I will need some help from both sides along the way. So far, both Nic Stayt and Rick Chafen have assisted, and likewise our discussions on this page about Finnish Rock history etc. have been helpful. Indicentally, does anyone know who plays the electric guitar on 'Losing Hold'? Venlig hilsen, the Tanskalainen
	11/02/08 12:55
Reply:	According to his own words, a Swedish session player called Lasse Summanen. Mvh, Mikko

Name :	Jake
Message :	Kun aihe pysyy Wigwamissa (ja on mielenkiintoinen), niin kai se nyt on herranjestas aivan sama, vaikka joku kävisi täällä yksinpuhelua.
	11/02/08 11:33

Name :	EsaJii
Message :	Wigwam was definitely a progressive band through most of its career, though the latter part brought out some more pop elements. I don't really have to list the hallmarks of Prog, but they are there (meters other than 4/4 etc). When Pohjola put out his first solo, he petty much dispensed with guitars. Another mark.
	11/02/08 02:04

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	Suonna, you are probably right that most fans of Progressive Rock don't care much about the lyrics. But was Wigwam a Progressive Rock band? Perhaps if we talk about JG and PP, bit JP's influences are the Band, Procol Harum, Randy Newman, the Beatles, Traffic, Bob Dylan - none of these artists are really "Progressive", though they did at times lean in that direction. I would call them intelligent Pop Rock. Included in this is that they took their lyrics extremely seriously and were often masters at writing them, and so is JP. So should we take them seriously? I think we should, but I just have to find a way to do it without killing my own enthusiasm in the process.
	11/02/08 00:11

Name :	Suonna
Message :	Mr Tanskalainen, good point on LGSaS lyrics. Honestly I believe that only a minority of prog rock/classic rock listeners focuses on lyrics. Finnish rock writers & Wigwam lovers have been labeling Jim with genius tag since early 70's, but has anybody seen or heard any lyric analyses accompanying these praises? It's enough that he chose Finland instead of his home country, writes great melodies and can sing them in a funny way when necessary...
	10/02/08 21:26

Name :	Pekka
Message :	Nythän tämä muuttu mielenkiintoseksi, kun useampi tuli mukaan keskusteluun. Antakaa palaa!
	10/02/08 18:21

Name :	the Tanskalainen
Message :	Several of the lyrics on "Lucky Golden Stripes" are very anti-American, so there's a political theme right there if you like. It came out, of course, in the bi-centennial year of the US declaration of independence, a 'colossal' celebration, and can only be seen as JP's extremely dry comment on the whole thing. Strangely, I have never seen any reviewers pick up in this.
	10/02/08 14:08

Name :	EsaJii
Message :	No sori jos ammutaan kaukana. Mutta se biisi on upea, ja siinä alussa selviää minkäalaisia sankaritöitä valkoinen mies tekee maailmalla: "Attack you fools!" the captain bawls "I have your heads upon my walls!" Rows of heroes crouch to crawls, bomb Bamboo huts and village halls, smash Ping-pong bats with cannon balls, as Ali-Baba's sheiks and sauls Debag Goliath as he falls While the Statue Of Liberty climbs and mauls everything. Tai niin ainakin teksteissä lukee. Alkuasukkaat taistelee ruohonkorsilla ja pingismailoilla. Tanskalainen: It was the phrase Grasss for blades that needed explaining. One of my favorite songs along with Money greed chicken-feed lose and call it gain Grand to feel sane again OR Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state Our case for survival before it's too late.. I guess I like the morose stuff. A toast to our miserable race.
	10/02/08 05:39

Name :	Jouko, Kerava
Message :	To expand a little: the idea seems to be that the Viet Cong fighters used whatever primitive means they had at their disposal to combat the US Army. Thus "grass for blades". Ain't that something?
	09/02/08 16:15

Name :	Jouko, Kerava
Message :	Manuel, depending on the clause, it would be something like "ruohoja terinä", I guess.
	09/02/08 16:07

Name :	Manuel
Message :	What does "grass for blades" mean in Finnish. "...where the people use the grass for blades.." Pembroke sings. Impossible for me english. "Ruokaa palleille" said mr. Loiri in Pop Lisa.
	09/02/08 15:28

Name :	Jouko, Kerava
Message :	Joo, mutta onhan se toisaalta kiva että tänne edes jotain kirjoitetaan noin päivittäin. Mielenkiintoinen pointti kyllä: onko Wigwamissa koskaan ollut ketään sillä tavalla umpisuomalaista? Esa?
	09/02/08 15:04

Name :	Pekka
Message :	Ehdotus:Eikö Esa ja Tanskalainen voisi tehdä sinunkaupat ja vaihtaa e-mailiä? Hienoa kaksinpuhelua toki, vaikkei historiallisia linjauksia välttämättä allekirjoittaisikaan.
	09/02/08 12:55

Name :	EsaJii
Current favourite song :	Rambling Jack Elliot doing Woody Guthrie
Message :	Finns seem to have taken advantage of Nordic connections. Historically we are part of the culture. But there is something that keeps us apart too. It is that stubbornness through the centuries that kept us from taking up a Germanic grammar. I think it has to do with our two neighbors. Finns even teamed up with Germany from time to time. But, I think Finland too is getting more connected. I blame Nokia (just joking). Kaurismäki likes to film the disappearing Finnishness.
	09/02/08 03:24